this event was democracy in action. a of this body of the people's house was meeting one-on-one with our constituents. six wonderful people died that day, including my friend gabe zimmerman, my go to guy from the congresswoman sinema staff. >> c-span, powered by cable. >> up next a discussion on humanitarian situation in gaza, united nations in humanitarian coordinator for gaza sigrid kaag addresses food shortages in the delivery of aid into the region. hosted by the u.s. institute of peace, this is about 40 minutes.

>> good afternoon. my name is mona yacoubian, and the vice president for the middle east and north africa here at the o u.s. institute of peace. it's my great pleasure to welcome those of you in the room as welll as those joining us online for thisos fireside chatn navigating humanitarian assistance in gaza. for those of you who are not familiar with the u.s. institute of peace, we are a national, independent, nonpartisan institute created by congress. our mission is the prevention, litigation, and resolution of violent conflict around the world. as we think about conflict, i

think our minds turn very quickly tour gaza, to the conflt in gaza which has presented an extraordinarily complex set of managerial challenges. on octob7 with the hamas attack and the ensuing conflict in gaza, we have seen humanitarian conditions deteriorate to really extraordinary crisis levels. there are now concerns about imminent famine in northern gaza. there are an estimated 129 hostages from several countries who remain unaccounted for also in gaza. and looming over all of this is a potential incursion into rafah, the southern part of gaza. i'm honored to welcome ms. sigrid kaag to help us unpack

the complexity of the humanitarian challenges in gaza. ms. kaag serves as the united nations senior humanitarian and reconstruction coordinator for gaza. this is a position she has held since january following the passage of un security council resolution 27-20 last december. in this role, she facilitates, coordinates, monitors, and verifies humanitarian relief into gaza. she brings a wealth of experience to this job. she has held several positions in the dutch government, most recently serving as deputy prime minister and minister of finance. she also has a wide range of senior positions at the u.n. she served, among other places, as u.s. special court nader for lebanon from -- special coordinator for lebanon. i want to make sure the audience

knows you all have the ability to pose questions. you should have question cards with you that will be collected. yes, robert in the back has question cards. just signal and we will make sure you get one. those who are joining us online, you can use the chat box to pose your questions. we want to make sure we have time for that at the very end. with that, sigrid, let me dive right in. the situation in gaza was already quite dire in december when the un security council resolution passed creating your position. since then, several u.n. agencies are warning about the prospect of imminent famine. can you describe for us the scope and the scale of humanitarian need in gaza? and more broadly, how would you frame this overarching problem set of the humanitarian challenges that are posed in the gaza conflict arena? ms. kaag: thank you.

the first one is hard to summarize, but i would start to say the situation is catastrophic. all civilians are deeply affected. the majority have lost their homes. certainly lost their livelihoods. we have thousands and thousands of children in modern wartime -- without a known living relative. gaza families have always been extended gaza families to have quite a number of children. no living relative is very telling about the extent of loss of life. we know the statistics that two thirds of the casualties in this conflict are women and children. no clean water, or very little. people are reduced to sharing a latrine. this has an effect that women

and girls are not particularly safe to use whatever is one would call facilities. communal use at best, if you are lucky to have it. waste is lying in the streets, piling up, piling up. i'm still surprised you don't see rats or not as many as one would expect. i'm told no, because rats also get eaten. everything tells you, every example tells you how dire it is. i don't think the word "dire" is applicable. in a place where you are confined, no place to flee, and internal movements within gaza have been compounded. so, extent and scale, i have said this a number of times. i have been going to gaza for different professional reason since 1998.

you cannot recognize the place. i also know palestinians from gaza who desperately tried to look up on the map to see if they can find some sort of markers to see where their house was because, let's say, the mosque is destroyed. you don't have the classic, you turn around the corner, there is that church or that school and i will find my house. everything has been destroyed or reduced to significant amount of rubble. we have to start how to keep growing, retain a measure of human dignity. it is catastrophic, very daunting, and significantly more needs to be done. mona: so on that point, and earlier this week, the biden administration did note that israel has taken "significant steps to improve the flow of aid to gaza."

but also stressed that there is significant more work to be done, i think, to the point you are making. are you seeing any improvements on the ground, and how would one measure improvement given what you have just laid down? how do we understand what the metrics are for any improved situation on the ground in gaza? ms. kaag: i believe you are referring to david satterfield as well. he gave a little bit of an exit interview perhaps. mona: now, former -- ms. kaag: a minimal job from day one. he has been out there bringing and pushing and asking and checking. i have said this yesterday too. since april 5, in the wake of the tragedy which led to the death of the wck humanitarian workers, israel has taken a number of steps. it has made a number of commitments so i think we need

to recognize that. but, we need a lot more. i have been very clear on that to the security council. we need a paradigm shift. that means we need to see a significant increase in volume. we need sustainable and consistent flows. we need to see measures being implemented or that will be implemented which i know israeli officials have confirmed they will do that can definitely alter the way in which we can actually receive and distribute the assistance. maybe in the months where supplies were only coming in more by a trickle effect, way below anything we would expect for effective humanitarian assistance, we have started counting trucks. but trucks is the wrong metric. it is a means to an end. you need to move around, but it tells you very little on the quantity of the supplies, the relevance, the types of goods you need to not only sustain the

population, but deal with malnourished children, to give the dignity to women and girls, to have the right type of medication for trauma care, but also chronic health care. it is a broad scope of need. and for that, we need to see a change not only on the supply side, but in our ability to deliver. and then it gets very granular and practical. it gets to road repairs. it is sometimes said, well, the u.n. will pick it up. it is quite difficult because the trucks cannot go. the israeli government made the decision to expand the fuel supply. there's not enough fuel for trucks and cars to go. the clearance of drivers of convoys. behavior at checkpoints inside gaza. there's a lot of improvement that still needs to be made and clear agreements to be firmly established or reaffirmed.

that is what we also qualify as a paradigm shift. all that underpins the collective ability of the u.n. let's not forget the international ngos and the palestinian ngos. it underpins our collective ability to expand our footprint, and above all, reach people on a constant and consistent basis. now, the wck case, the tragic incident has also shown that deconfliction is a much touted word. it needs to be clearly understood and adhered to. it is meaningful a to z. the convoy has the agreement to go, what happens on the way, if there is a risk of an incident. there will be direct contact to the military authorities, i would say, with the idf, that we can prevent. and there's always a constant negotiation or dialogue.

i expect additional measures to be made or announced and to be firmed up. at the end of the day, the only metric then is the well-being of people is improving. if we can treat malnourished children. if we are bringing people back from the brink. if there is sufficient shelter. if access to clean water is improved. i'm working on a measurement system basically with the u.k., but i also had this morning a meeting at the nsc. the u.s. has committed to assist us to make sure we all have the right metrics. otherwise, we go from the anecdotal into the measurable. as we know, data and our ability to measure is extremely important because it also makes it less political and makes it even more practical. we don't have to argue. if we are firm in the data, the ask is also very clear and the

accountability is also important in this. mona: it is very helpful. i would like to draw you out further on different aspects of this paradigm shift you are talking about. but, i want to start by having you articulate in more detail the particular vulnerability that women and children face. you have worked in other conflict zones. we see this across the globe in various conflict zones. we have seen it in the gaza conflict. you noted the number of children, not just orphans, but with no living relative which is devastating. the number of widows and women head of households which conveys its own set of challenges. can you articulate more on the nature of, or the disproportionate challenge that women and children in particular face in a conflict zones such as

the one in gaza? ms. kaag: i have to say the conflict zone of gaza is, given the parameters and perimeters of the conflict, there is other situation like this. gaza was a conservative society, but all women and girls went to school and completed their education. i think vulnerability has many faces. it is the acute, it is the now. it is the more marginal position that may have within their family household or community. the fact that a lot of the men are either out there looking for food or barter or queueing up. the girls are often sent to go look for water or other food commodities. we have seen it in the pictures often with these baskets or anything to try to gather some foodstuffs or water. i hear from my colleagues on the ground in gaza that they are

deeply concerned about the rise of gender-based violence. sadly not surprised, but it is a given. when people are ultimately deeply poor and dependent solely on very low levels of assistance certainly until now, the risk of exploitation in any other form are very real. a number of the conversations my colleague has had, this is something we need to hone in on. deeply so at night given that electricity is hardly available. it is not a safe place for women and girls to queue up for the latrine. nightfall is a very dangerous place in these types of settings for women and girls. would also argue for the many unaccompanied children. how what i describe it? that is the current. the vulnerability also lies in

the deep poverty and total exposure and lack of safe shelter or any opportunities. how do you get children and girls back into places of learning? usually we see a family is deeply impoverished and has no opportunity. it is not the girls that continue their education. there are also risks to their future development even if we are in the stage again where recovery they have taken place and educational opportunities are opening up, even in the most creative forms. we have to push here also for the fact that rights are equal, but vulnerabilities are not equal. there is an inequity built in. that is something we have to anticipate. mona: it sounds like with the magnitude that labs over a generation. these are not just changes that are addressed in the immediate term. i want to have you help us

understand better the threat we have already seen, the breakdown of law and order in northern gaza for sure. i don't know how the situation is further south. but, some of the chaos that erupts as a result of security vacuums and governance vacuums. i think i read somewhere something you said which i thought was fascinating. it makes sense unfortunately, which is the scarcity of food itself becomes a driver for conflict. i wonder if you could kind of explain, help us understand better this non-permissive environment in which these challenges are taking place. how do we understand the role of the breakdown of law and order? what kind of additional challenges does that present to your team and others that are working on this issue? ms. kaag: the breakdown of law and order in the absence of the

de facto authority, so to speak, the security there was earlier provided/imposed by hamas, but there was a functioning police force for better or for worse. i will not caveat that further. it has led to this vacuum. in nature, a vacuum always gets filled but not necessarily by the forces for good. despair has crowded out any ability to organize. despair has upped prices for scarce commodities, certainly before the measures of the april 5 were taken. when there was an attempt to increase the levels of assistance. we have seen a drop in the prices for certain commodities, the moment supplies were a little more available or the volume was out there on the market. that had a restorative aspect partially. then, of course, the many months

where there was hardly anything coming in or far from a level of sufficiency, we have seen the crowds. people say this might be the last truck coming, particularly in the north where supplies were short of anything we would call acceptable levels. despair drives many factors. but in a vacuum, when there is no law and order provided by any structured force, criminal gangs, the availability of guns, weapons, the show of force. the strongest or most organized entity tends to rise above. who are the victims? those who have no means, women and children. the ones who tend to be already vulnerable. they can never reach and it has a very distorted, damaging effect and it is a further negative spiral. but, the concern is this holds

-- this is why in the security council yesterday but in many other cases, the secretary-general or myself and others have called for the return of the palestinian authority and the reestablishment of governance. under governance, law and order, security, stability is extremely important not only for the ability to provide aid, but for people to receive it in a secure and safe manner. it is not the law of the jungle that you are entitled to be assisted in a manner that provides for human dignity and respect for the human being. mona: so, there are lots of things i want to ask you. i'm mindful of time and i want to make sure we have time for the audience to also ask their questions. i do want to talk a little bit about the maritime route. this is something that has received attention here. there was recently a pentagon spokesman saying that u.s. military vessels are in the military and region -- in the

mediterranean region and standing by pair to construct the pier off the coast of gaza when given the order to do so. the u.s. was positioned to begin construction very soon, in the near future. tell us a little bit tell us a a little bit about t role that peer will play. talk us through the mechanism of getting food to this maritime route, how will that work, nor the different actors involved in that? and where does the. fit into the broader paradigm you are laying down about related to access? >> the pier, the maritime route is part of the bigger picture of diversification of routes. the priority remains what i would say land, land, land. it's quicker, cheaper, more predictable, or sustainable. the maritime route evolved as an

option as we had great difficulty to get the goods to gaza by land given the number of crossings remained closed until fairly recently. it evolved as an opportunity an option to provide for additional commodities to arrive in gaza. checked and verified. in cyprus, shipped of course to the port which is sort of in the middle of gaza i would say, and where humanitarian actors can from a safe zone received to distribute further across the gaza strip. it wouldn't be something weou would do under other circumstances. perhaps not. it's a testimony to the collective will of the international community to find opportunities by any means to reach innocent civilians and to not only procure but also provide the level of assistance they need. i consider it additional. the port in future could also

have a helpful function if it stays because the plan is evolving each time, a helpful function when it comes to recovery and reconstruction materials for gaza. >> to look at the questions i want to break something -- you have reference to the time the world central kitchen episode in which some 17 members of the world central kitchen were killed accidentally killed by an israeli airstrike. the question is, what is the u.n.'s position on mechanism m r protecting ngos operating in gaza? you talked about deconfliction and deconfliction channels but can you talkca more about what posture is being taken, how to ensure aid workers are also safe and secure in provision assistant? >> i think weeka have to sadly recognize that this conflict has extracted a very high toll of

casualties amongst to mention workers, more soke than any othr situation. secondly, the need to protect and ability to work safely for jamaican workers the work for ingos or ngos is as important as you and family. so for me the whole discussion and negotiation around deconfliction needs be applicable to the entire humanitarian community. there's no difference. we do know in gaza certainly comes to g arrangements and follow-up the i ngos are even more vulnerable position. we need to make sure we make sure all agreements that will be reached or reaffirmed apply to all and that requires receive joint planning. there is in countryry setting alwaysth a human return country team. the are members of that group. everything is discussed, negotiated together so you have a firm, solid position as one

voice on half of the group. >> another question that's come up and on the minds of many who watch caza close to, you and i chatted briefly before coming on stage aboutut it, and that is yr assessment or that of the u.n. of what a rafah operation would mean for the displaced gazans that are now very much group in rafah, in the southern part of gaza. what are the implications of a significant incursion into rafah in terms of humanitarian consequences? >> i think we can hardly imagine what the consequences would be. but we fear for the worsening of an already profound crisis. we fear of course loss of life in the secretary general, myself, we keep of course asking for the rafah incursion not to

happen. we can only predict catastrophic impact of civilians. gaza is note a place where one can hide. we've seen this time and time and time again and it's been most exposed this round. our ability to assist people will also be for the confined and constrained. we do not have any visibility on the type of operation. we understand from israeli officials that they stayed repeatedly it will happen. and obviously as the u.n. we cannot be outlined in preparation for an invasion or an incursion. we would not like to see happen. at the same time we need to assist people and be in a position to provide for protection and support. >> i want to give it a little bit. your title is humanitarian and reconstruction cornet -- pivot -- it's important some the time

we have to draw you out a little bit more on the over the horizon challenges related to reconstruction. it's something i wanted to ask you. there's also a question from the audience related so we'll try to put them together and maybe have you talk a little bit about what that pivot looks like from an early recovery to eventual reconstruction. what role doee you see regional actors playing, such as the uae, in particular is one country that has expressed interest in engaging on this. the questions of the audience, what are the options for expanding energy imports into gaza to supply electricity and other infrastructure? may be as we think about even immediate humanitarian need, how do we plant or how does the u.n. plan and think about how those immediate responses can actually also have the seeds for eventual

reconstruction and economic development? >> i think we're all familiar with the fairly old discussion of the nexus of humanitarian and development, but often there's a tie between that can either be drawn out or really short. perhaps we also need to look at in gaza, before i linked it to the political parameters, is what we can do in very localized settings if there is no fighting, or almostt no fightin, or localized conditions that allow for it that we really start rehabilitation with the early recovery. my big ask everyone when i speak is, do not ask palestinian civilians in gaza 28 for the conclusion of the two-state solution. however, for the international community it's very important that there is of course a prospect a two-state solution. these regional actors have also made it very clear a number of

them are also stating there not any position or willing to reinvest again without the be the political parameters, prospects of the two-state solution. otherwise, who will know what will happen next? the international community has invested many times in gaza. the dutch haveav invested in gaa a number of times. each time the port has been destroyed. not taxpayers after well grow a little wary and also in a changing political find to say let's invest one more time. they understand the human need. they understand it from human rights perspective but the actual decision to provide for the massive investment needed over multiple, multiple years begged the question firstd of te political context. so there is one. then need a government setting. for the u.n. in many countries, return of the palestinian authority and the function of

critical palestinian institutions is really important to provide for in a fight in which investments can be made. you can see change in progress. but we need to plan him now. a number of assessments have been made available that give you a daunting picture of the extent of the damage and the cost. d we need to be creative. we cannot go after this conflict or this setting now with the same old instruments that we applied for another setting, of the situations that can do less damage. so we need to rethink. i'm hopeful that once there is a ceasefire and the release of hostages, aukus wee should not forget their fate, and obviously the deep insecurities and fears of the families, that there is a shift in the discussion and that's also where we need to prepare for that pivot. we need to prepare for it so in the moment is there we can actually have content-based discussions what'sed needed, how

shall we do it, who will lead on it? the ideas are there. perhaps the prospects of financing, and then we can start. but my fear would be that there may be a drawn out situation of low-level conflict continuing, limited access, not get clarity on the governance, and in that twilight zone we still have a duty of care and we have an obligation. so that is my sort of drive to look at it in that way. i'm very mindful as a former minister of all the considerations governmentsis ha, but my only metric is do we assist people, civilians in gaza, do we give them hope, do we get something meaningful and tangible? situation of -- people need to see change in the need to change. they've gone through too much. >> indeed.

part of me is tempted to ask a darker question about whether we are already in the day after. in other words, is no day after if there is a ceasefire. we are living that reality. what i'm not. i'm going to try and draw you out even a little further on, have you seen creative ideas out there on how to start thinking, even now, about ways in which interventions now and actually start to play a role in guises future one day down the road, reconstruction? one idea i have heard is the rubble, of which there is quite a bit, could be used to create artificial islands, islands off the coast. are there some creative ideas that you've stumbled upon in your work that you could share with the audience?

>> well, i'm not sure if all is created. i think all is very solid. for instance, there are a number of architects who had phenomenal ideas as to how god is a civilians could have totally different forms ofto housing. short term but also longer-term. there are wonderful ideas around the preservation and restoration of gaza heritage. everybody has history and everybody has heritage. when it h comes to learning we need to use all the technology available, not being dependent on the restoration or rehabilitation of old schoolre buildings. these are currently used by the idp. how to provide for using school? how to get children to learn? i would say across every sector there's a lot of innovation, there's a lota of drive, and its a matter of planning out but hopefully making it come together of course as a somewhat comprehensive plan. we shouldn't ignore the fact palestinian authority has put forward its ideas and once to

take a leadership role, as it should, in this whole discussion, but also the implementation or execution of the change of the civilians in gaza need to see. i'll give you one anecdote though which isec a program i really like and one of his minister, we financed it. it was called gaza geeks. this was for young people that were playing with i.t. come selling products online knowing that they would in the 17 years of the seas not be permitted to leave gaza ever, but they were given the i.t. skills. they were given marketing skills. skills. they were selling, supporting all with the idea, in other countries indeed you have a highly skilled and educated population. palestinians in gaza are equally smart and most of them have graduated. they were working away. i would also like to see again where technology can be used to create the different jobs out theree for which you do not

necessarily have to travel, although i hope that for them as well, but youhe can start. it could be very localized but the world could still some of the openview. here i think when you get technology. least, palestinian entrepreneurs are, so many of them are highly successful, willing to put their money out there. it's ultimately building their future country. there is a gaza industrial estate. it's just outside, many companies were there before. if you start to rebuild those and provide forbe the permits ad the opportunity, gazans can work there your income can be generated. we need to start with a number of exemplary initiatives that have worked, that have ownership and have the investors. and then we need to start driving theve change. is it enough? no.

but one needs to start somewhere because even look at the sheer levels of destruction it's easy to be very daunted. the civilians of gaza, we need to support them. we don't have lectured to say this is daunting, this is complex. i believe as fellow human beings we owe it to them. >> i want to actually conclude our conversation on that very helpful and important note. i think you've outlined and given us some really interesting creative things to think about in the midst of an incredibly difficult, even to use your work, catastrophic situation, that there's always space for hope and creative ideas. please enjoy me in thanking sigrid kaag for spending time with us this afternoon, is very rich and enlightened discussion. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> sunday on q&a, former rhode island democratic congressman patrick kennedy author of profiles in mental health courage talks about america to struggle with mental illness and the role family members play in their care.

>> in my own case with my mother, my brother and sister and i had to get guardianship over my mother. we saved her life so she could be around with my kids. my kids never met my father obviously who died before they were bored, but they got to meet my mom, and they got to meet my mom because my brother and sister and i went to court to get guardianship over our mother to keep her from killing herself. she was so happy, at the time she wasn't happy that she ended up being so grateful that she was able to make it to the other side because we intervened. >> patrick can be with his book "profiles in mental health courage" sunday night at eight eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast on her free c-span now out. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by this television companies and more including

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